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Police Officer asks you to try his "shoes"


My shoes

First of all, I would like to thank all of you for the messages of support. I was wrong. I feel a lot of you get it. I think most of you understand why I'm here. I let a small minority push me away. If those of you addicted to this drug presently, or in the past, were persuaded so easily where would we be?

I hope my visits from time to time will add a different perspective and in some way help your recovery. I also hope my visits will encourage all of you to step into my shoes and try to see things from the other side of the street. I plan on posting from time to time with questions, comments, or stories that hopefully bring value to this site. With that said, I ask you to put on a uniform, sit down in a patrol car (I'm a police officer if you didn't know) and you decide:

I'm driving down the road on a typical days shift. I'm waiting for my next radio assignment (i.e. accident, domestic dispute, attempt suicide, suicide, robbery,...whatever it might be). While driving down a busy highway, I pass a guy on my right at around 7:00am as he drives down the road.

I look at him and he looks at me in a nervous, guilty conscience sort of way. His actions, physical appearance, etc...displays obvious signs, from my years of dealing with the drug, of a person that has been using meth for quite some time. We eventually find ourselves on the shoulder of the road on a minor traffic violation.

I'm asking that you continue to view this from my perspective. I'm sure by now you are already seeing yourself as the guy in the car being pulled over.

I approach the car and speak with the driver. I see two receipts from Walgreen’s on the rear floor of the car and two boxes of psuedoephedrine tablets on the passenger seat. I see all the physical signs of a meth addict as I speak to him. What would you do if you were in my profession at this point? Would you let him go knowing deep down that he needs help? Is arresting him really helping him? Will he stop using on his own if I let him go? Will he kill someone driving in the condition he is in? The questions could go on and on.

I ask him to step out of his car and walk to the shoulder of the road with me. He is erratic in his movements. He is reaching toward his pockets even though I ask him to keep his hands away from his body. He cannot, or will not follow my directions. I ask him if he is transporting anything illegal and then ask him if I can search his person and vehicle. The man says that I can search him, which reveals approx. 2 grams of meth in his pocket.

I place him under arrest and we now are on our way to jail. I begin to talk to him on that way to jail about his addiction. I talk to him to try to find some reason for his addiction, some way to help stop the drug..etc...not just to arrest him.

He explains that he has a wife and kids at home. He explains that he has never been arrested, and that his wife will leave him if she finds out about his addiction. He also tells me he has been using for about 2 years and feels that he cannot stop without help. I begin to look at all the alternatives which in my position are few. I offer the man alternatives to conviction and jail time (snitch, or rat most would say). Without going into too much detail, he agrees to cooperate. As a result two lab seizures occur and his arrest results in release and no conviction. I work with him through another co-worker to get him help. The man knows that he can't stop on his own and enters rehap.

Strangely enough, I ran into this man again a few days ago. I pulled up to him to see how he was doing. I could see that he had gained weight and seemed like he was working toward recovery.

He explained to me that he had lost his wife, children and job due to the arrest, but he was clean and had been for several months. He said he would never go back to the drug that made him lose his entire family.

I couldn't help but ask myself as I drove away...Did I cost him his family? Maybe he would have stopped on his own...? Many of you have. Maybe he would have not stopped until he was dead...many have. What is the answer? Did I save his life, or ruin it? I will never know the true answers.

Damn this drug for putting me in this position.

Should I turn the other way? What would you do?


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You saved his life. Hopefully his family will come around and save it again by letting him back in.

It's easier to offer forgivness, once our wounds have had time to heal.

Second chances are handed out everyday. Welcome Back!


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He had already lost his wife , children , and job before you ever saw him on the road. He just didn't know it yet.
But thanks to you, he didn't lose his life.
There is still hope for a relationship with his wife and children - he is clean and on the way to recovery. He can get another job .There is no life with meth.
Graffin, nice to meet you


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You knnow I did put my self in the users shoes at first. You so did save his life.


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Hello Graffin - it's nice to meet you. Thank you for shedding some light from yet another perspective. No such thing as coincidence - you saved his life. I hope you will continue to share your stories and ask questions. You're so right.... damn this drug.


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Welcome back, and yes you saved his life! That was so awesome what you did! It shows how much you really do care! your an awesome person i hope we get to talk more!


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Welcome back graffin. Consider this: What quality of life did he have on meth? He may have had a family and a job. I would be willing to bet there were problems in both. I would say he and his wife had problems due to his unadmitted addiction. I would be willing to bet he was not a good father, or a good role model, to his children. I would go on to say I bet he was not doing the best he could at work. I am sure he had problems due to coming in tardy and not showing up at all. He was teetering on the brink of losing it all anyway. He was going down with the ship. You closed down two meth labs, and put two cooks and countless dealers out of business. I see the moral delimma you are facing. I think you made the right decision. I think a lot of people on drugs want to get their lives straight and just do not know how. I think you showed this man the way. Peace and God bless!


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Hey Graffin,

Glad you are here...Not until recently did I know about you. My ex is a police office so I can relate to you in many ways. We are still close and I know tons of officers. Lot of them do not have quite the understanding of Meth that you seem to. Nor do they seem to want to try to help them. Just get them off the streets.

I think you did the right thing. First of all it is your job to protect all of us. Rock bottom might be going to jail for some..I doubt him being arrested cost him everything. It was probably the last staw for everyone already affected by his use. Meth cost him everything..His poor chooses and so on.. If that was all it took for him to reach out for help was getting arrested then that was a blessing that day for him. He is clean and if he works hard I am sure one day he will have his family back...Jobs they come and go...He will get another one..

As hard as it is I know the man I love will one day be arrested AGAIN.. He does not live with me anymore and is on the go majority of the time now. Who knows maybe that will be his wake up call...Maybe not...All we can do is just hope and pray that each one finds there way...Keep up the good work and coming here to share. Stay safe out there...T


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Hey Graffin, I WAS in the back of that police car. When I got arrested I was bitter and I blamed my husband (That is a long story, but to make it short lets just say he got arrested and because of that, I did too.) I wasn't mad at a the deputy (Even as a using addict) because he was professional and treated me with kindness. He was doing his job and he was doing it well - I am sure I wouldn't feel that way had he been a jerk to me. Had he been a jerk, I might not have been as able to accept that this was MY FAULT, not the deputies fault (As you probably know, addicts are notorious for blaming everything on everyone else.) He DID ask me to snitch, but in my world, "Snitches end up in ditches" and I was much more willing to sit in jail than to be dead.

Now, can I ask you something? If you gave him the offer to snitch, and he did, was he charged anyway? I always thought (And was told by the deputy who arrested ME this last time) that if you snitched, you got to go home!

The bottom line is this - YOU didn't cost him anything. However, if he wasn't charged, then why would you worry that your actions cost him his family? Maybe you could explain what happened to him legally after he agreed to snitch?

OK, now onto the losing of the wife and family. I can almost guarantee that was going to happen, regardless of his arrest. Not too many marriages can survive Meth - I know my first marriage was killed by meth, and my current marriage was nearly killed for the same reason. Fortunately, BECAUSE we were arrested, my husband was sentenced to Prop. 36 (In California) which is mandatory treatment instead of jail time. The charges against me ended up being dropped by the district attorney, because my husband took the rap and said the dope was his, not mine (That wasn't exactly true - it was OUR dope.) Between the arrest and his conviction, we were separated for 5 months - and during that 5 months, guess how I spent my time? I had lost my job within 3 weeks of my arrest, so I had plenty of time to GET HIGH, and that is what I did. When hubby had to start outpatient treatment, 3 NA meetings a week, and random drug testing, I jumped on board and went to the meetings with him. It took 7 months of meetings for me to finally "Get it," and I am happy to say that I have been drug free for 18 months. I never want to go back to the SLAVERY of addiction.

At the time of my arrest, I thought it was the beginning of the end - and it WAS. It was the beginning of the end of my life as an ACTIVE DRUG ADDICT, and being arrested was the best thing that could have happened to me! It was the open handed slap to the face that started the ball rolling; lost my job, seperated from my husband, and even got evicted eventually. That chain of events SAVED MY LIFE. I think I must have prayed to God that he help me to quit using meth, because he certainly made sure I did - not the way I wanted to of course - but MY GOD has a sense of humor!

I am glad you are here graffin. I hope you learn from us as I know we can certainly learn from you!


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We need you here, graffin, and welcome back. I am the mom of a recovering Meth addict, and we need all kinds of viewpoints on this site. thanks for coming back!


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My opinion:

Police officers have one of the most difficult jobs in the world. I have always, and continue to, love cops. They do the work no one else wants to do, with very little applause from anyone but their fellow officers and family.

When a meth addict puts him/herself out on the street, in a car, out in public, or in/near a lab, it is unwritten law that they stand a chance of getting popped. They choose to take that chance. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. But they know from the git-go, that's the deal.

About five years ago my girlfriend was driving MY car, (a 1999 white Saturn in perfect condition)in an area covered by Rampart Street Division in Los Angeles. Anyone know about Rampart Street? One of the most corrupt police divisions in the country. (Jeez, Graffin, I hope that's not your division!) She "looked" liked trouble, I must admit (tats everywhere, dark, short, spikey hair, ciggy hanging outta her mouth, etc.)

Sure enough, she was pulled over for some bogus reason, the cops took one look at her (a drug-abusing dyke if ever there was one), called over a female cop, and searched her. She had 1/4 of a GRAM on her, which I knew about - she was bringing it to a friend of ours. They arrested her, impounded my car, and wouldn't you know, under "quantity" the cops had written 3 1/2 grams (1/8th of an oz., or an 8Ball, as we all know). Well, if we had had the money for a ball, we woulda been at home partying, believe me.

They pulled her over because she looked the part, and arrested her for a minute quantity (she obviously wasn't a dealer). Then they have the lack of ethical standards to make up a quantity that would look good on the arrest report.

This contributed to the continuation of the horror that was my girlfriends' life. It took twenty thousand dollars to get her outta this with community service and enforced meetings. Eventually she took her life, not because of being busted, but because of general lack of faith in people. The cops who busted her were morally and ethically corrupt, (along with most people she had ever encountered).

I loved and continue to love this woman with all my heart and soul. Yet, I still like and respect cops and think I always probably will. GOOD COPS. There are ALWAYS corrupt cops, unethical lawyers, doctors who prescribe unnecessary drugs for money, and generally people who could benefit from a little spiritual inventory.

But Graffin, in my humble opinion, you did not only the right thing, you did the ONLY thing you could do given the circumstances and the badge you wear. THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTS....THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES...you were there at the time and place you were supposed to be and did exactly as you were supposed to do. This man did exactly as he was supposed to do. You did your job. And it sounds like you did it with compassion, consideration and grace.

From all the "Welcome Backs", I gather you've left this forum once or twice. Gee, me, too! I've had a love/hate relationship with this board since early February, but have come to the conclusion that, like cops, THE VAST MAJORITY of these peeps are terrific! Looking forward to reading more from you...


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You story brought tears to my eyes. A little over a year ago a very good friend of mine was murder in the dope world. I miss this person very much. I have been thinking alot about him and sometimes when I am doing my recovery stuff I swear I can feel him standing next to me saying I am glad you got out. I knew you could do it. I am sry to hear about you GF. that had to be horrible to go through.


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So happy you came back :-)
You offer a valuable perspective for this board!
You did not cost this man his family, he chose to use which resulted in a run in with the law. Meth users usually end up involved with legal issues & for many this resulted in getting into recovery. SO...what I am trying to say is you did not cost him his family, you gave him the opportunity to save himself.
For the addicts that never realize of get the chance, Thanks for putting your life on the line daily, thanks for taking the time to talk & offer alternatives.
Please do not look the other way, we need law officers with compassion like yourself.


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Hey man glad your back!! I have been in both your position and also am a recovering addict. I was a M.P. in the Army years ago and had similar situations. As you know I am a recovering addict as well. I had a police officer give me a HUGE break. I fell asleep at a red light, he searched my truck and found my pipe, a 9-mm & 3-1/2 grams of ICE. He gave me a break....he arrested me for public intoxication and did not report the drugs or gun. I spent the night in jail and got out the next morning went to my connections house and began using and dealing again. I didnt even Thank this guy for what he did???? All I cared about was METH.

Then as I told you before my soon to be X-wifes B/F began abusing her BAD. I knew the B/F and was friends with him.
I knew of crimes he had commited and turned him in. I cried as I swore out the statement because I didnt want to have to be the one to put him away. I looked above the detectives head and there was a sign that said "Justice For All". A light went off in my head... Long story short this guy went on the run, held my wife hostage for 4-days, then the police came and arrested her and used her as bait at a Wal-Mart. As her B/F exited the store he saw the police, he then ran back inside and pulled a 9-mm gun and the police opened fire on him killing him. They had no choice, he in my opinion commited suiside by cop. I spoke with this Detective and he is having a tough time dealing with the situation. It's SAD how Meth effects everyone's lives even the ones who are trying to help.

This Detective gave me a 2nd chance at life. He knew I used Meth and he knew as I cried in his office that I was sincere. I have updated him on my life so he knows that something good did come from his efforts. I am 90-days clean have full custody of my 3-kids and have a better job than ever before.

Arresting this guy was it the right thing to do I am not sure. I am sure of one thing addicts will do whatever it takes to continue useing UNTIL they are ready to quit!

Thanks again for coming back to this site! We need you...and you passed a HUGE test. You do have what it takes to help others and to save lives.


Ol Ma

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Why didn't you register? How can we send little private notes if you don't register? LOL! I know I can email, but what about the rest of the gang?

Graf, you did your job. You did what was right in your own eyes. And that is all any of us can do. We all know that no one wins with meth.

Glad to see you finally getting back into the swing of things here. Missed ya.


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I have to add a little story to this. When I was bringing my grandkid's back from Ga. to visit their mom at re-hab (the visit between her & i went badly)my mind was off in space & a Georgia State trooper pulled me over for speeding! He asked me to get out of the car & go back to his while writing down my Driver info, asked me what my hurry was. I told him what had just transpired, & she had lost custody of these 2 children, "he said I guess you can't afford a $300. ticket right now, can you.?"
He gave me a warning & took a bunch of toys out of his trunk, went & kneeled down to talk to my Grandaughter & told her, life would be different for awile, & a bunch of awesome things (on her level). He looked like he had a Hallow on his head!!!I gave him a big hug! Must have looked funny to people driving by,BUT THANK YOU TO SGT. MOORE, GA STATE TROOPER!!!!


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I couldn't help but ask myself as I drove away...Did I cost him his family? Maybe he would have stopped on his own...? Many of you have. Maybe he would have not stopped until he was dead...many have. What is the answer? Did I save his life, or ruin it? I will never know the true answers.



You didn't cost him his family and he said himself that he couldn't stop on his own so in that case ... he would have just kept spiraling down further and further, deeper and deeper into the pit of meth hell and more than likely would his secret would have been revealed to his wife eventually. He was the one that used meth and when we choose to use we lose, family, friends, homes, jobs, etc. That's just the way it works. He knew what he was doing was wrong and could cost him everything ... yet he couldn't help himself ... You didn't ruin this mans life. Meth robbed from him as it does all of those who use it. I look at it this way ... You did your job and in doing so you may have saved this mans from eventually being incarcerated or worse DYING ... (In my opinion you saved this mans life) and you saved his children from having to bury their father ... He may not have his family "together" but at least the people that love him don't have to grieve a senseless death. I have said it before and I will say it again ... I wish my husband had encountered a Police Officer like you ... Maybe he would still be alive today.

and none of us know the future ... maybe someday he might be able to mend his family back together ... or maybe not, maybe he'll remarry and live out the rest of his life happy, health and clean from meth. You did the right thing.

Just my two cents,


To answer your questions

It is different in different cities, and there are a lot of legal variables involved. When a felony arrest is made we can hold a person up to 20 hrs in order to apply for warrants. Once warrants are issued, the person is given a bond, or sits in jail until their court date. That only happens for violent crimes, murder, rape..etc. With drugs we have to wait for lab results on the drugs which can take months. I then schedule an appointment for warrant application and the person is arrested after warrants have been issued (whenever they are found).

I told the man in the example that he would be arrested and released within 2-3 hours like everyone. If he agreed to work with detectives upon his release, then warrants would not be applied for and he would never go to court or be convicted.

He decided to work with the detective and then worked through another employee for placement into rehab. Warrants were never applied for and he was never officially charged. Was he still arrested? Yes Will he ever do jail time, fines, go on his record..No

His wife found out about his addiction because he knew he would have to go into rehab to stop. She obviously had to know why he was entering rehab and the truth came out.

It's a complicated mess with a lot of variables. Every situation is unique. This is just one example. More to come....


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I would like any advice that you can give me as I have a 39 year old brother that has been on meth for at least 10 years. I am at the point that I really hate him so bad that sometimes I think if he were to die I would not care, I only care because he has an 11 year old who is my niece and I don't want that to happen to her, she has no idea yet that drugs are the reason he is the way he is.

I have tried everything from getting our famuly counseling to talking to him and he just denies that he is doing it. His teeth are rotted and some have been pulled because they are so bad, all he can say is that he "was" doing it but stopped 2 years ago. I know this is BS because there is no way he stopped on his own.

He has ruined everyone in my families life, my mom and dad are in such denial that it makes me sad. I know because I am also a co-dependent that grew up with an alcoholic father.

I would appreciate any comments or advice, is there any way to get him to stop?


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See Graf,
we do have some use for you yet, You let someone who doesnt even know you and didnt care to understand your thoughts and opinions deter you from making yourself more available to us...WE NEED YOU!
Yeah so I just wanted to say glad your at least posting and your awesome I miss you in chat...Did you get my E mail?


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Graffin - if you ever get the chance please tell that gentleman about this website. Please print this thread and let him know how proud we are of him. It's priceless to see the look on someone's face when you tell them that people are pulling for them. Your friend is welcome here anytime and he will find a haven of support. My gratitude to you Graffin for your service above-and-beyond the call of duty. We need more heroes like you. It's an honor to have you here with us.


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I have to say that you're very honest... and to me that means alot. After all, when you're honest it means you arnt pretending to be anything you arn't and I respect that.

My opinion of your story is you did everything in a completely appropriate way. When I was using I always figured that police were a fact of life, you guys do your job and I did mine. I wasnt going to complain about being arrested cause hey, that was on me, I was the one out there commiting crimes. The man you arrested was putting himself the path of the law and you happened to be the one that found him. You didnt do anything that harmed him, meth did, plain and simple. Dope destroys lives and when you arrested him you made him make a choice. Get clean or keep on the path he was following.
You can't blame yourself for what happens to people that you arrest as long as you obey the same law you expect others to. As long as you dont abuse your powers then what right do these people have to complain? They decided to commit crimes and they should be able to accept that they put themselves in those cuffs more than you did.

Heh, now this part I've tried to hold my tongue about... but I can't. I don't believe in snitches. I dont believe it can ever be right to commit crimes and then when you get caught make other people take the fall for your mistakes. What I do think though is that as a police officer you have every right to use snitches... after all, it isnt your integrity that suffers. Only theirs. The whole concept just makes me cringe, I apologize.

I'm glad you came back, diversity is somthing that always helps intelligent discusion in my opinion.

Oh, and if you ever have a guy in the back of your car yelling at the top of his lungs, "please officer, can you loosen these cuffs?" dont just ignore him. I have permanent nerve damage in my right hand. I was only yelling cause the doors were closed and he was in the parkinglot... but yeah. He just laughed at me.


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Ahh, your'e back!! I was hoping that you would, you're not that thin skined!! You have alot to offer here, now I see I'm not alone in my opinion of you!
If you don't get to the source of the making of this drug, how can you control it?
I, along with so many others on this site, say thank you, you are one of the GOOD COPS! You do re my story, I hope. Everything beens quiet here lately, I read Sam some of the replies I got, the best one was from danimal!! He has a way with words, and I think that his reply made Sam take a look at himself and why his wife was on this site!
So for now.. things are normal and that's all I want.


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I would like to say that I am glad you came back.

I soooo want to believe in you and I’m trying. I have a lot of trust and faith in Ma and Sfj. If they say you are okay, then you must be. So, I want you to know, I am trying here.

I am a law abiding citizen. A couple of speeding tickets, no arrest or anything of that nature. My son, now that’s a different story. Numerous arrest. Most of his friends, the same.

I live in a very small community. Our law enforcement is a “good ole boy” thing. My experience with law enforcement has been much like Lisa and Spasemonky. Not good experiences. The last time I spoke with our local “high sheriff” I said to him “Please, please don’t kill my boy.” You see, I was to far away and they were going to get to him before I could get there. I was terrified.

Now on to other things

Do all of the officers in your department feel as you do or are you different?
Does your county, state or whatever make it mandatory for officers to take various training and stay updated? (Such as, how to handle a freaked out meth addict without killing them first and then asking questions.)(How to deal with a violent person that is mentally ill, not on drugs, just mentally ill.)

I want to say this, then more questions for you............

I believe that addicts are sick people. Not evil, not bad, just sick. I believe they have a disease, like cancer. I believe these folks need and deserve help. I understand they don’t always want help. I believe addicts are people, human beings that bleed red blood just like you and me. I believe they deserve respect and compassion.

How can we get law enforcement to get training in constructive, positive ways to deal with addicts?
How do we get law enforcement to become educated regarding the addict as a person?
How do we teach law enforcement to have compassion or is that even possible?

Sorry this is so long but this a subject I feel very strongly about. At this point in my life I have very little respect for law enforcement. I was taught that policemen are you friends. I have taught my children this. I was taught wrong as were my children.

For the record and for whatever it is worth - I don’t believe in snitches either. Goes against the grain for me.

I mean no insults toward you or your profession. I will agree that your job is not an easy one and one that I would not want.

I will look forward to your response and more post from you.


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This is such a fine example of the reason I came here and so many others, we all want and need help in this, and what brought us here doesn't really matter in the solution. It matters that we are all seeking solutions from all angles, and learning in the process. It sure puts a real happy face on me to see such exchange and care, lightens my heart a little too, how about all of you?

Wasn't around when Graffin came last and got the unfortunate treatment to say the least. Graffin, you've had it before and I knew you'd be back, cause that's who you are You and yours helped me, now let me help you if I may. Use the CRIT as it is there for you, and I do believe that God is working through you, Chaplain for weekly, and consider a LOA if need be. Look around, you are in the one year burnout deal and how long have you gone? I know you are too humble and also abiding to share this, so I will....your salary is well below poverty level, your hours are unbelievable, and you are given a task each moment that takes the life out of you. Oh, you do get that way kewl "free car" with gasoline which is now in the works of a great debate while your hands are tied on the issue. So many have posted about "good cop"/"bad cop". Lets think a moment how this comes to be. True, some are just born power trippin low self esteemers bound for it, but take a person who gives a damn, put them through training (and continual ann. hours), plus the real deal, hours on count wheras time for "paperwork" does not which is endless, and oh those so fun court settings, send them home without rest and a heavy weary soul, not enough pay to live in a decent home (has anyone seen where an officer lives?), buy groceries and the needed basics, it can get a little grouchy or greedy out. So then you work that infamous "second job", which for most is security near minimum wage. There aren't enough hours in the day, ever. Workin like crazy, no sleep and see this and worse. God Bless each and every one of you. And we wonder why there is a drug and alchohol problem within??? Do da.

So as we've seen what's in Graffin's heart and intent, as well as testimony from so many in this thread, what do you say to taking some time into looking into what each can do? As a democracy, we are all a part of this process even though we often feel not. Find out the salaries and duties of each level of your local agencies, and then form a group to donate in various means. Write and email those who represent your locale and state, go visit them too Let them know what the real deal is. Don't let a Congressional or Senate session go by without knowing the bills (online easy to find) and SHOW UP once or twice a session, offer to testify if you feel called to. Let's get this democracy turned around at least enough to stop the battles within those who are all wanting the same thing....we have just came about it for different reasons. BTW law enforcement can not do this as part of their oath, so it is up to us to do so.

Recovering addicts can become involved not only at the public information level with law enforcement, but perhaps form a "support group" as we've seen support here to remind officers they are doing all they can, and suggest ways that can help everyone. Anyone can donate to each division and also CPS or DFC for the items that officers pay daily out of their pocket for such as the toys that came out of the trunk, diapers, blankets, items of immediate need in emergency crisis that will provide temporary diversion and relief. Tampons, hair brushes, barrettes, color books and crayons, little hand games, dolls, clothing (ask first) and so on...just think of all the items that you would want in a first responder situation if it were yourself or your child/grandchild. Maybe for those in recovery, a drive for these types of items or what the agency requests, just ask! For those of us who have never used but lost a family  to this, same thing, different groups!

Let's lobby and get those salaries up beyond 20-30K, dig into the budget info and contact the local agencies with purpose and intent of any help to donate in the meantime!

For those of you in smaller towns where there is a servant town Marshall, yes I can see where the 'good ole boy' comes into play, but they work for ZERO or next to it....and take it from there.

Nothing is impossible, or impobable as we have learned. It may be tenaciously difficult, but hey look at how stubborn we all are....winners hang tight and hold on to the other as they need to lay down and rest.

Off topic slightly but mentioned in thread, banning OTC's....well its a start, not a solution...but if nothing were done......???



Re: My shoes

That is a tough question for me. I guess my first bit of advise would be to hate the drug and not your brother. I think as most any recovering addict will tell you, you will not stop until you are ready to stop. I hope your brother finds a way to make that happen for him and his family. Some people realize their rock bottom when they are tired of losing..family, friends, jobs..jail..etc. I don't think there is any one answer to get him to stop. Some families try interventions when they are at the point of writing their family  off. Giving him love and having candid coversations with him about his addiction may be a step in the right direction, but he has to make the decision. You can't blame him for his betrayals. Just don't give up on him.


Response to unwise

I first wanted to say that I understand your hesitations and trust issues with LE. That is part of the reason that I'm here I guess. I have been burned by many addicts of this drug. I have had people try to hurt me numerous times while they were under the influence of this drug. Showing too much compassion in this profession can be viewed as weakness by people that I encounter and has/can get Officers killed. An officer I know got killed a couple weeks ago. I'm here to learn and teach. I'm taking a risk at putting my self out on the table just as you are. Only good can come from this if we keep an open mind.

To answer a few other questions you have. Yes, all departments take mandatory classes yearly to maintain accred. Meth training is offered, but is not required. You asked if we have training in dealing with the mentally ill. Interestingly enough several departments are adopting a model developed in Memphis designed to give officers special training with the mentally ill, drug users..etc. I spent a week in a course that gives me secondary options to just taking the person to jail, or shooting them. I am dispatched to scenes with mentally unstable individuals and now have better alternatives to deal with them. A few years ago we were forced to shot in a situation involving say a violent unstable person with a knife. Today many officer carry Taser guns that are highly effective in taking the person into custody by non-lethal means. We have come a long way, but have along way to go. I agree with you that addicts have a disease. I also know that if someone has a mental illness and is violent then they are not of right mind. However, I have to keep myself alive first before I can do any good for them. It's a fine line.

Are all officers like me in my department you asked..
Like any profession, there are good, bad and worse. I work with real people and most have great intentions. Are there bad seeds? You bet. Most love what they do and just want to help people. The problem is it's hard to see if you are actually helping someone often times which I tried to convey when I posted the original message. It's easy to look at the world with foggy lenses when you have been doing this for a while. I try to separate the job from family, but it's hard often times (as you can see I still think about things at home).

"Snitches" are a tool that LE has always used and will continue to use to do good police work. "Good" meaning more crimes will be solved. I do believe in doing the time if you do the crime. I also think that in certain situations..too long to explain here...it can be a necessary evil for some.

Thanks for your post.


Response to runnin shoes

You bring up some interesting points. The argument of better pay, benefits, etc will most likely continue to be an issue for years to come. The public is divided on how they feel about Law Enforcement. As a result, and often times, those individuals making the decisions for increasing our pay, or determining where the money goes, pass us over. I knew going into this job that the pay was bad, the hours were bad, the job would be hard, etc.. When I was in college I didn't say to myself, "When I get my degree in criminology I'm gonna be rich." I knew what I was getting into. Maybe not all aspects of what the job would be, but the compensation. I'm getting by and I'm happy. That is all that matters to me. When you see true poverty as I see it at times, I go home feeling rich most every day.

You asked me to explain the difference between the responsibilties of a first responder vs. Social Service positions....? Police Officers as you know are called to various calls for service....Rape, Child abuse, Theft..etc As a police officer, first responder, it is my job to first access the situation for immediate threat of injury, or loss of life and act accordingly,all the while investigating for a criminal matter. Let me give you an example of a Law Enforcement and Social Service Position working together in their specific jobs. I get dispatched to a call for possible child abuse. As I arrive, I see two children 2 and 3 years old, naked and running down a street. A neighbor directs me to the apt in which they live. I contact the mother who is found to be in a heroin induced state. The apt is horrible, filthy, with no food. Drug paraphernalia is laying around in plain view. I contacted the Department of Family Services and a social worker responds. I arrest the mother and she is transported to Jail, while I then meet the social worker who is still working to find temp foster care for the children (on mother's day). I transported the children to a foster home with the social worker. My job will be to follow up on the criminal side of the incident..apply for warrants, court..etc. The social worker will work with the mother and children to determine what the mother needs to do to get her children back. The two postions differ in the sense that my primary job as a first responder is criminal activity and determining immediate safety measures and social services work more long-term with individuals for family wellness aspects and have no arrest powers.

I don't want to get too far away from what this site is designed to do.... Support those recovering, wanting to recover, family of those addicted, and a lone pig that is trying to make a difference I think if you want to make a difference in terms of donations to support LE, I would say call you local Department of Family Services Office. They deal with children that are directly impacted by this drug. They can direct you on how to get clothes, food, etc..directly into the hands of the children that had no choice in being born into a horrible environment. Supporting foster homes, DFS, shelters etc..to support the children is key. They are the real victims and are our future.

Off topic..I saw your other post and question about anhydrous ammonia. Yes, this is a popular method of producing and is highly dangerous. I actually found myself in the ER a couple nights ago as a result of anhydrous exposure. Controlling the pre-cursors is key. Without all the ingredients, or making them more difficult to obtain is a step in the right direction.

Take care


Re: My shoes

Thanks again Graffin! I'm prone to agree with you, as many others do, in regards to the required ingredients and limiting access to them, not just the ephedrine products! Some will adamantly oppose the concept of limiting availiability of these ingredients but I'm of the mind....what harm can it do to try? As near as I can tell, curbing the demand for meth is'nt a viable option as we continue to see court rooms and rehab centers overflowing. If the stats are reliable, it appears that restricting ephedrine sales is already slowing down the "mom and pop" labs in some areas. What have we got to lose?



Awwww...you are just way too kewl Touch my heart so much, remind me of a few others in your shoes too. I am SO GLAD you came on board here, and realize the time you are taking to do so is precious. KCI is truly blessed by your presence.

I'm so sorry about the ER, ugh, this stuff makes me so angry at times. No gear, or no time? We had an entire city evacuated last week in our state due to some dipwad purposefully leaving the valves on each tank after stealing what they needed at that moment. I used to own a farm and stay in touch with a few in the rural area, while I'm in suburbia now. Wonder what happened to that additive that made the skin pink? Those that work the Co-Ops say they are circled like sharks 24/7 and turn their back and deal done went down. I have some pics of officer burned from presentation in our state of Indiana, and also when my daughter was found....well I would prefer to share with you off the board on this. We both have no ez inbox for privacy reasons. How do we do this?

I've been coming here since May 2000, sometimes it was all I had to get through another day of heartache and confusion and served well. Other times I have seen the board or chat lash out and have been hurt, leave for awhile, not needing the drama, get on with life so to speak, and something always brings me back. Despite it all, I am so thankful for this place.

There is a severe lack of knowledgable and helpful counseling for immediate family. I've seen so many changes over the time I first arrived here, and sadly much of it has to do with the growth of meth bringing more people reaching out for help. In that process though, it seems we are defining as we go and are not alone. I have learned much from those in recovery that I would have otherwise never known, since thankfully I've never been a drug user.

Thank you for defining you role and that of Social Services so eloquently. In the past I have been frustrated defending law enforcement due to the confusion. Two of my friends in law enforcement are were so overblown by the public perception and the duties placed before them that they literally burn out and give up. They are just like you...they were called to this and have a wonderful gift that each of us should cherish and respect. Take care of you first and your family please. One friend said to me in this heat wave, "I had to pass by an elderly couple on a call back sitting on the side of the road with car problems, and it just killed me inside not to stop and help" All he could do was wizz by as they waved arms and call it in. He said he felt like he left his grandparents on the side of the road to die.

Are you city, county, state, DNR?

OH I need to run....let me know how to get in touch please.

With Faith, Hope and Love,

runnin shoes (I got those to overcome the stress)

BUT I BROKE A TOE AND NAIL BED...so flops for me for awhile...LOL


Re: Graf

YOU SAVED HIS LIFE....but you also saved that families life good job. If it hadnt been for Detective Gayman i would be dead (my x is and was a user, dealer ect)If it wasnt for your words of encouragement then things could have been so much worse....because of detective gayman i had been going to school for psy but just recently changed my major to crimianl justice...i want criminal investigations and will minor in psy.....if it wasnt for you guys i wouldnt be thriving in my life.... and my x wouldnt be serving time at the department of corrections right now I thank everyone of you because that could have been a dangerous situation for you so good job and do visit us....and the semester is about to begin so i may have a few questions for you.....good job!!!!!!


To Joplinburns

Awww you see such a difference we have been blessed haven't we? Many times over. Giving back has no end for people like us.

Okay, on your major change I gotta share this one...I had to interview several law enforcement....and baby just a warning...good detectives aren't used to answering the q's.... I made a good friend and gained much insight, like why I would never join the force during those days. Apparently they saw something in me that my friends, family nor myself did and tried to recruit me silly...made em all laugh when the phone rang, recruiter again. I don't like to see people hurt, pass out with blood (unless it's family and I stay strong for them, then go fall apart), get angry when I see children hurt by adults by any means, and my heart is too big to shove it off. Back then they really needed gals to work vice...I HATED drugs. Still do. The only thing I knew how to do well was drive fast and shoot well ROFL. This was before my divorce and recruiter knew someone who knew my father in law and ended up calling him to "talk to me". My father in law laughed til he cried! I wanted a new car at the time....he told me he knew how I could get one....with cherries on top too LOL No thanky, I went on with my post grad, but with the utmost respect for all who serve. My degree was a long and winding one, and once again a recruiter called. Wasn't too far back. I told him straight out
1. If I worked an accident, I would pass out right there.
2. If the driver was impaired by booze or drugs and hurt a child, I would take it up with the driver right there.
Thought that would end the convo....he said yannow every officer pukes on side, and we teach you how to deal with the anger and disassociate at the scene enough to survive it. Then you have a huge "family" who supports you, etc. I am glad to hear you feel the calling and the stregnth to do such an honorable job....I'm pullinfor you! I am not made of the right "stuff" as my Daddy would say



To answer your queston about my trip to the ER. I stopped a car that had just stolen a tank of Anhydrous. The tank was covered in the back. I asked the driver if he was transporting anything illegal and he lied. As I started to search I got a blast of ammonia from the tank because it was leaking.
Minor eye burns. Nothing a good eye flush didn't fix.
I'll live.

That's cool that you are interested in Criminal Justice Joplin. If I had it to do again I probably would have pursued a different degree than CJ. My major was CJ and my minor was in psychology. You can get into LE with any degree. I'm thinking of going back and getting my masters degree, but don't think I'll find the time.



What a gift you've come back! Thanks!

For some reason I've never liked cops. My brother (a fireman) sat me down the other day and gave me an earful about cops and why they're heroes to him (most that is)...He told me about one time when his company was trying to extinguish a multi unit blaze, people on the street were throwing glass bottles and bricks at them. Thank God for the cops who got everyone off the street so the fire could be put out. My bro said this has happened many times and many of his friends ARE cops.

Most of us not in the Law/Fire jobs cannot even imagine what you face every day.

I had a thought while reading your opening post...you saved the guy, his family AND other DRIVERS! So your compassion has had a ripple effect....and it will continue to reverberate.

Love and peace,

Ol Ma

Re: My shoes

I know this is no laughing matter but I gotta chuckle anyway...I knew I liked Graffin...and I knew I had to give you all and him a chance to like each other.

Damn I am such a busybody...emailing cops inviting them back to our board...shame on me...LOL!


Re: My shoes

first of all let me say thank you for doing your job. you must look at it from his eyes also that you are the 1 person that gave him the alternative to the addiction, although his family is not any longer he is still there for his family and CLEAN, there is still hope that he will stay clean and help someone else with their battle, which is the only way this epidemic will slow is one person at a time again thank you for helping me get clean YOU DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE


Re: My shoes

you know that movie Pay it Foreward. That is griffian and maybe everyone you helped one day with help someone else. Part of recovery is telling you story to another addict.

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