KCI The Anti_Meth Site

Slip or relapse and addiction

Lepre chaun	Slip or relapse People slip on ice, not when they use once after quitting and relapse is a conscious thought and action to use, so if people are using in recovery its not relapse its just plain using, just my 2 cents but addicts who tell me relapse is ok or part of recovery in my opinion haven't really experienced recovery in the first place, if you stick your hand in fire once it burns like hell so would you stick your hand in fire a second time because you forgot what it felt like or to see if it was different second time around I think not. Thanks for letting me vent. And as always this is just my opinion. P.S And just in case it comes up in thought addiction and insanity are separate medical issues.
Replies...
Penel0pe	Re: Slip or relapse *Quote:* And just in case it comes up in thought addiction and insanity are separate medical issues. One can definitely lead to the other, though - I see it often! Last week out of curiosity I looked at the census rand (A little book with the patients names and general info..) 15 patients. ONE came in with a negative drug screen, 14 were positive for SOMETHING, most were positive for one of two things: Meth, or Alcohol. Addiction seems to lead to insanity for many.
Tender hearts KS	Re: Slip or relapse Hey Lep, that's exactly how my sponsor views it, and I have come to view it over the years. Thanks for sharing that!
Sfj	Re: Slip or relapse FWIW, In the medical, or psychiatric profession, according to the, DSM IV the various forms of chemical dependency are given equal status with other forms of mental illness. 12-step programs often refer to addiction as a disease. Many consider addiction to be a spiritual problem. I also like the notion of calling addiction "Bio-psycho-social" in nature. Another is "Maladaptive Behavior." Again FWIW, I don't think it is quite so simple that one description, or one method of treatment is appropriate for all people in all cases. It is too complex for that. IMHO
Loraura	Re: Slip of relapse Many "insane" people self-medicate with drugs to increase their comfort level. Once their bodies become dependant on the chemical, it is required just to prevent an increase in their discomfort level. No one likes to feel uncomfortable.
le grumps	Re: Slip or relapse Sfj... the term "maladaptive behavior" (which I heard you use a few months ago) REALLY help put together for me how addictive behavior works. If I am going to slip, my preparing for it is maladaptive behavior, even if I don't use. If I see myself slipping, I understand that my behavior is heading in the wrong direction, because I am not an expert yet of "always doing the right thing", because I am still getting better and learning how to live life. I used to hem and haw about addiction and my relationship to substances. ("I don't have DT's when I stop drinking, so obviously alcohol is not a problem for me." Or, when it was meth "I don't need a bowl first thing in the morning to function. Never mind that I blow through a gram a day. I am not an addict!") But it's the obsession to substances that is the maladaptive behavior for me. Drugs were my god, because only when I was using could I really "feel". (So I thought!) Ok I need to go back to work... bleh.
missy buns	Re: Slip or relapse I happen to agree about using and "relapse". I cringe at the word relapse just because it's like the word "practice" lol Oh and here's my two cents on insanity...it's a legal term and not a medical term.
danimal 55	Re: Slip or relapse Peeps certainly DO "slip" on "ICE" Lep! slip 1. to go quietly or secretly; move without attracting notice 4. to escape or pass from a person's memory, mind, power, grasp, etc 7. to make a mistake; fall into error 8. to become worse; lose strength, ability, mental keenness, etc 6a. an act of slipping, sliding, or falling down 7a. a deviation or turning aside, esp. from a practice, course of conduct, etc. considered right and my fav. 4a. a woman's sleeveless undergarment the same length as a dress, usually suspended from shoulder straps
SOS 1988	Re: Slip or relapse wrong i wasn't insane till i started using hard drugs buddy.....I've gone from schizo to nutty in 5 months....I've always been eccentric but not insane, there's a difference big man
Penel0pe	Re: Slip or relapse *Quote:* Oh and here's my two cents on insanity...it's a legal term and not a medical term. OK then, for the sake of accuracy... Addiction seems to lead to MENTAL ILLNESS for many. Often, when the drugs are taken out of the equation, the mental illness goes away. Sometimes it doesn't. Sfj is right - addiction is far too complex to make any black and white conclusions. I just know what who I am, what I did in active addiction, that I am not driven to do those things today, and what I see as a psych nurse too.
Lepre chaun	Re: Slip or relapse IMO people who use the insanity excuse for there addiction are avoiding their real issues, insane behavior does not equal insanity, I used 25 years and demonstrated insane behavior daily but I will be clean for 13 years on the 25th of this month and the insane behavior ended 13 years ago. Am I insane today no was I insane when I used no, I was and still am an addict. How many of you are insane because of the results of your addiction, and be honest or how many take the easy way out saying I was insane because if I wasn't using I would never have done all that I did to myself and others. IMO if you are truly insane then you will never seek recovery because you can never seek something you don't or can't understand and to accomplish recovery you must come to an understanding of your self.
NoMore 4Me	Re: Slip or relapse If someone doesn't know, they don't know... meaning WHY we behave this way or that. I know that's learned in recovery. Example: Me, before prison and 8 months in one cell or another, it finally hit me... I MESSED up!! I had years clean. I just hadn't addressed ALL the issues that brought me to the point where I felt I was right, when the courts and attorney was saying that was wrong. Honestly, I could not see for the life of me why beating that girl up was wrong. After all, she was pushing my buttons. You know that light people talk about and they say... "ohhhh, I get it." That was me. Recovery, IMO, is a never ending trek.
jes78	Re: Slip or relapse i am not insane, but my behavior is. insanity, to me, and I've heard it said a million times, is repeating the same behavior over and over expecting a different result. i have tried to use w/ success many times, but it never happens that way. why did i keep trying? i think my behavior was insane. i kept doing it, thinking the outcome would be different. it wasn't. i always woke up on the hospital bed, in a jail cell or in a motel room. also i never had a slip. if i use just one time, i use every day. at first its once a week, then twice. you get the idea. jes78
luve piphany	Re: Slip or relapse Hmmmm, Leprachaun, how long until you think an addict who doesn't seek recovery, should be given until they are Insane? You know, how long do they get until they can be called insane because they can't seek recovery because they can't get to know and understand their Self? How long? By the way, I totally agree with your idea that insanity is not the same as being insane. I just thought I'd throw in this question. I know it's a rhetorical question but it's just what comes to mind when thinking of an addict that could play insane fairly well just by hiding behind a meth addiction... Lep, do you really think you understood your "self" when you were in the throes of addiction? A meth addict I know really does seem to sometimes understand and be play-acting to prolong the dope-doing life, but other times, seems ridiculously ready to be committed. Hmmmm
Lepre chaun	Re: Slip or relapse I know a lot of meth addicts but none diagnosed as insane, I know a lot who display insane behavior but seek recovery and I knew 4 who died from their addiction, Its not me who will make that diagnosis. I saw the shadow people and I hallucinated and I heard the voices but they were drug induced and not insanity. I didn't understand myself when I started my recovery but I said people who were truly insane IMO couldn't seek something don't and can't understand meaning recovery because if they are truly insane they are incapable of understanding themselves. I had no idea who I was until I got into recovery but I understood I needed recovery to find and understand me. Clean requires no dope recovery requires change can the truly insane change.
luve piphany	Re: Slip or ,relapse I guess that's where a spiritual awakening is needed...to understand that one needs recovery...I'm thinking that a meth addict needs a spiritual awakening just to clear the brain and understand. Seems like the hardest core heroin addict that I've known, had more understanding of his need for recovery than the meth addict I love.
lisag45	Re: Slip or relapse Just my 2 cents... I've worked in mental health for years and we see MANY dually diagnosed people, those with both mental illness/substance abuse. The general belief seems to be that people were mentally ill initially and began using substances to 'self-medicate'. In fact, we contract with several hospitals to 'pink slip' (involuntary commitment in Ohio) to psychiatric units and there are very few that will accept dual-diagnosis clts. For me, I've never been able to figure which came first, the chicken or the egg
luve piphany	Re: Slip or relapse lisage, that's so funny! Every time I try to figure it out, up comes the question, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Too FunnY! I always get rather rude responses when I simplify it all down...It really does all come down to that one question.