How can I make him / her stop meth? Active Helping...

phoenix

As a loved one, do you ask yourself, "How can I make him/her stop?"

Where does this lead you... feeling powerless and frustrated? When you try to talk about it here your usually told that there is nothing you can do about it because "you can't make him or her stop", and that's true, but it doesn't mean that you can't help...

Instead ask the question "How can I help to create an atmosphere in which he or she is better able to CHOOSE abstinence for him or herself and gain the tools to accomplish this"

It's called "active helping" and it can empower you.

Cornflower
Blue

Phoenix,

I would love to hear/learn more about this. I felt your post was speaking to me, as hubby and I just had this conversation regarding our addict son.
We are not the type of people to just cut him off, and while I understand people who do go that route, we just aren't willing to, nor do we feel it's appropriate at this time.
Do you have more info to share on "active helping," as I'm REALLY interested.

Thank you.

phoenix

My idea of helping an addict is to get them into treatment. Period.

Look into something called "Community Reinforcement and Family Training" (CRAFT) for starters.

http://www.hbo.com/addict...tive_to_intervention.html

sdm
sanjose

My son has been an addict for more than half his life (from 13 to 27) and I employ the three Rs.

I hold him RESPONSIBLE when he is in my house, I expect mutual RESPECT from him and from us, and I REVEAL my love for him by hugging him almost everytime I see him.

The three Rs plus praying is what I can do for now while waiting fo rthe what Phoenix mentioned,
the forth R, RECOVERY!

snooker
star

As a loved one, do you ask yourself, "How can I make him/her stop?"

This is what my parents did:
1.They stole my wallet, cutting up my driver's licence, bank cards and credit cards - this made it impossible for me to get any money for drugs, and I was not even able to get unemployment benefits then.
2. They got to know my dealers and fellow addicts, and then told them that I was in trouble with the police and that they would be too if they continued to associate with me- most addicts are sooooo paranoid that this was very effective at reducing the number of addicts I associated with, making it more difficult to deal or to get drugs.
3. They also threatened my dealers that they would call the police themselves, if the dealers kept associating with me.
4. They called the police on me and my car got impounded, with my drugs in it.

It became soooo difficult for me to continue dealing, with no money, no car, no customers that I got VERY tired VERY quickly and finally threw in the towel and went to sleep at my parents' house for a few months. I am still living at my parents' place, and I am 7 months clean today.

jg1985

snookerstar wrote:

As a loved one, do you ask yourself, "How can I make him/her stop?"

This is what my parents did:
1.They stole my wallet, cutting up my driver's licence, bank cards and credit cards - this made it impossible for me to get any money for drugs, and I was not even able to get unemployment benefits then.
2. They got to know my dealers and fellow addicts, and then told them that I was in trouble with the police and that they would be too if they continued to associate with me- most addicts are sooooo paranoid that this was very effective at reducing the number of addicts I associated with, making it more difficult to deal or to get drugs.
3. They also threatened my dealers that they would call the police themselves, if the dealers kept associating with me.
4. They called the police on me and my car got impounded, with my drugs in it.

It became soooo difficult for me to continue dealing, with no money, no car, no customers that I got VERY tired VERY quickly and finally threw in the towel and went to sleep at my parents' house for a few months. I am still living at my parents' place, and I am 7 months clean today.

Wow.......

If we had done any of that to our addict I think he would have shot us in our sleep or something. I cannot believe they had the guts to do all of that. Incredible love for their son I suppose.

Thanks, Pheonix for posting this. I am still with my addict and although today he is clean.....tomorrow is a mystery.......a very scary mystery. I know that it will be his choice as to whether he stays clean or not.....it has nothing to do with me. I know that. But it sure gives me hope that their is something that I can do and that I am not completely helpless.

Hurting
for YOU

Great post my friend!

I can speak from only from my personal dealings as a love done..............YES YES YES.............if the loved one wants so badly to change their addict........they will drive themselves crazy.........thus making it harder to help the addict because we as loved ones become sick ourselves. It is so very important if a loved one has depression or feels overwhelmed by their addicts behavior........that they go find some kind of support system.

I went to Alanon as that was the only thing in my area. Alanon and KCI Family has helped me to LET GO. Once I was able to let go, I became healthier and be able to stop being an enabler.

This is so tough on EVERYONE.

Thanks Phx...........for posting such a great topic.

phoenix

"This is so tough on EVERYONE."

How true... Addiction is too often a family disease, and the term "codependancy" gets thrown around way too lightly (I'm one of the guilty) sometimes. That is why family therapy or self-help like alanon is soooooo important.

By doing that you are helping to create an "atmosphere" that is healthy and positive not just for yourself, but your addict as well.

sdm
sanjose

Snookerstar
Your story is very interesting, keep us posted. CONGRADULATIOBS on 7 months Clean!

Phoenix, thanks for helping us loved ones of the addict. Your one of the reasons I read this forum.

1.CRAFT is a motivational model of help based on research that consistently finds motivational treatments to be superior to confrontational ones.

CRAFT shows you how to develop your loved one's motivation to change b yhelping you figure out how to appropriately reward healthy behavior. You learn how to make sober activities more attractive to your loved one, and drug- or alcohol-using activities less inviting. In this way, you minimize conflict and maximize cooperative relationship-enhancing interactions with your loved one.

My son came and stayed a few nights with me a few days ago. He was quite and slept a lot, he seemed depressed. HIs girlfriend told him to ask me if there was any work he could do. I included him in installing 15 gas ranges in one of the projects I manage. He went to work with me and meth is co-workers that he used to work with ( I fired him in 2004) and they gave him a big welcome back. My son's countance changed and he seemed much more alive as he was working. He even came to my office at lunch time so that we could have lunch together and we even joked around at lunch. What a diiference it made that he was working. He got some money and he and his girlfriend stayed in a motel and today he did not show up for work. All I can say is that the lifestyle of the addict must really have a solid grip on the addict.

Why would an addict that has suffered so much with his addict lifestyle fail to make an effort to continue in an sober activity that improved his depression? This questionis for all.

Thanks again Phoenix for thinking of us.

danimal
55

sdmsanjose, you asked ...."Why would an addict that has suffered so much with his addict lifestyle fail to make an effort to continue in an sober activity that improved his depression?"

IMO the pink cloud of early abstinence/recovery comes and goes in cycles, it's all relative to a damaged and/or destroyed neurochemistry.
e.g Chicken one day...feathers the next.

Sober activities are rewarding, especially during the pink cloud days, but the obsession to use comes calling as the pink cloud evaporates...
and it happens fast!
The disappearing act is routine when the bottom falls out and the brain pleads for its meth-fuel.
Nothing else matters as the obsession to use takes the driver's seat.

IMO Josh was around long enough to get good taste of the wonderful things he has sacrificed for meth....a step in the right direction.

He'll make it....on his own terms and by the consequences he creates.

I'm sending up a wish that his next step comes soon!

forget
suzette

wow snookerstar....
.....that was an intense post.
I'm sure it was extremely intense, working those steps. lol!
....Ithought it was bad I had to come live on the island of no speed with my parents.

woo.

... stole yer wallett?? LOL!
I bet you looked everywhere, if you were doing speed.

forget
suzette

...also, I think you just changed the answer to the question:

"how do we make them stop" ...the old answer was, "you can't" or my answer was tie em to a chair in the attic for 3 months, w/internet access, and slide food under the door.
...in 3months open the door, and see your loved one. ----"The addict to attic program"

..............the newanswer is:

=The snookerstar act of 2007=


1.steal wallet, cut up driver's licence, bank cards and credit cards - make it impossible to get any money for drugs, and not even able to get unemployment benefits.

2. get to know dealers and fellow addicts, and tell them that ___________ is in trouble with the police and that they would be too if they continued so associate with _________
- most addicts are sooooo paranoid that this was very effective at reducing the number of addicts ____ associates with, making it more difficult to deal or to get drugs.

3. threaten dealers that you would call the police, if the dealers kept associating with__________.

4. call the police on ______ and get ca rimpounded, drugs in it.

I forgot to ask snookerstar, in what time frame did this all go down?
....in a week? .... a month?

just wondering.

snookerstar

I was an addict for about 5 years. My parents did all those things within the space of about a week, and continued tormenting other dealers etc for about the next 4 months. It took me about 4 months to throw in the towel.

(Btw, I looked EVERYWHERE for my wallet for about a week until I found out where it went).

Throughout those 4 months my parents regularly walked around the area where I lived with a picture of me, offering junkies $10 each for information about where I was, and where my druggie associates lived. Apparently junkies were more than willing to betray me for $10!

I absolutely HATED my parents for doing this at the time - but I can now see why they did it. I don't think I ever would have had the desire to stop on my own.

"The addict to attic program" is a brilliant program though. It is much simpler and more effective. Once I am one year clean and back on my feet, I plan on implementing "The addict to attic program" on Ruthie, my ex-girlfriend. I sooo want to "save" her, like my parents "saved" me, but I am not sure she can quit (she has declined any help and has already had a stroke). I don't want to inflict more pain on her by making her detox unless I am 100% sure that she will be better afterwards. I don't like seeing he rin pain.

forget
suzette

I'm sorry to hear that.
....it's so weird the flood of feelings i got when I read that.

I totally felt your irritation/frustration and it feels cruel....to an addict.
...it fukin' hurts to quit!
your brain drives you nuts about it.

but that was so brave of your folks...
...and they went to any lenghth to get you back....

it's just gut/heart wenching.

I don't have a word that describes that senerio.


it's great to meet you snookerstar.
.....you're fun to talk to.

LdyOfWzdm

I would trip over my own heart in a Forest Gump gal up to participate in a program like CRAFT, or any other recovery program with my children for that matter. When they were juveniles I committed them both into an inpatient behavior program at the hospital. My son for 90 days and my daughter for 30. I was VERY active in those programs, and the after care that followed....
...I'm sure they still have some tools left over from those days, and perhaps soon they will seek recovery and use them.

My daughter has never had a bank/credit card, a car (of her own), and loses her driver license faster than anyone could cut it up. Sookerstar, I think it was very brave what your parents did.
I would be frightened to death to go to one of my childrens dealer and make threats to them (of course my daughter was many times her own dealer as she's a cook, dealer, addict herself). For that matter I'm afraid of my own daughter's rage when she's in active addiction...
...she can do and say some really frightening things.

Snookerstar, I admire your parents for their persistence, but above all I admire the fact that you're able to stay in recovery, and that you've come here to help usunderstand "how it works", for YOU!

robert

That is a great intervention on your parents part..And It has worked well for you snookerstar...

I have read some of your posts in the past..Question on your 7 months clean which is great..

I have not heard of this Addict to attic program.That is definitely a tuff love program. how are you doing...

You look fairly young and Kudos to you for getting it about your addiction...

For me in the past I had a similar situation..Instead of my parents it was my family. Wife daughters that cut me off. I actually handed over access to our money and they would call or get in the faces of those selling to me..That helped me for a few months until I gained some trust back and reestablished my taking care of the bills and finances which I always handled..But after awhile the run was back on..and they gave up on that method..So hopefully your are more serious then I was to stay clean and have realized the severity of this disease. It sounds like you are..

Penel0pe

Interesting post, Phoenix, and being proactive in whatever way a loved one can (Whether it's in trying to get through to the addict, or in just trying to take care of themselves if they are dealing with a "treatment resistant" addict like mysef) has got to be better than doing nothing.

I was once put in the position of making the choice of going to a 28 day inpatient program, or losing my job. I agreed to go to the program, paid, and showed up when I was told to show up. I had my trunk full of clothes and books and all that good stuff, and I was given my money back at the door and sent home. I was told by the facility that they didn't feel I was "Ready," that I looked like I had used that day (Duh - I'm a drug addict... if I could stay clean I wouldn't have needed to go there in the first place,) and they sent me home.

I often wonder what the outcome would have been had I been allowed to stay, if I would have "Gotten It" with that level of treatment (And they were right, I DIDN'T want to be there - I imagine that's not terribly uncommon in that industry.)

Anyway, good thread, you never know. Proactive is better than doing nothing, and "Kick him / her to the curb "can't be the right answer in every case for all of the loved one swho come here. I DO believe that an addict will stop using precisely when he / she decides she wants to - but it sounds like some of us do respond to some type of "Intervention."

I was the type who had to keep bumping my head on the wall, over and over and over, before I realized "Hey, maybe if I stop bumping into this wall, my head will stop spinning..."

snooker
star

Suzette,
Thanks, I enjoyed the chat!

LdyOfWzdm,
Sorry I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes and impose my opinion on others. I realise that the strategy I outlined above will not be appropriate in all cases. My aim was just to provide an alternative point of view.

Robert,
I am not that young - I am 29. I am currently very motivated with my recovery. I have been to the doctor (as I think you suggested) and my blood test results were a significant improvement from my blood tests when I was using.
I am currently doing the following:
- seeing a drug counsellor once a week as part of a Stimulant Treatment Program (which I don't find helpful)
- seeing a social workers pecialising in mental health care (which I find very helpful). I have been diagnosed as having depression, and paranoid schitzophrenia, but I don't actually think I'm a mental case
-going to Crystal Meth Anonymous (CMA) four times a week (a bithelpful). And I have a sponsor from CMA that is 2 years clean.

Although I have been doing all the right things lately, I still don't have the trust of my family. I think this is partly because my sister recovered from heroin addiction but then went back to it.

Hopefully I'll be able to get a job soon, and become responsible, so I can prove them all wrong!

Thanks for your support

robert

The only one you need to prove to is yourself. We all should have a program of recovery if we don't feel that just abstinence is enough to keep us clean. What works for me may not work for you and vissa versa..
You take what you need and leave the rest. It took a long time for me to find what I feel is working for me..
If what you are doing doesn't help and you go back out ..I'm saying this about me..Then something needs to be different the next time..I have added into my program this time KCI, AM, and other forums related to each other which is here whenever I need them 24/7. All the folks in here play a major part in my continued recovery. Along with me not wanting to ever use drugs again..Of course.

But you have to be doing this for you..That trust if it does come back which it will. I don't believe should be a driving factor for YOU Rrecovery..If I'm wrong anyone let me know..29 years old is young to me snookerstar..LOL

Keepit
simple
forme

When I was going through it with Brett I called many of his contacts (any I could find on his phone) and threatened them that I would call the police on them. I stopped giving him money as did his parents. I got a TPO on him - his parents were on the verge. His walls were quickly closing in.

It worked for us -- or has so far. He's in treatment with over 4 months clean and planning on staying longer.

LdyOf
Wzdm

Snookerstar...
...no damage here, I too was just sharing my experiance. I was in no way offended by your post, I found it quite interesting, and insightful.

Sometimes, the written word can be taken the wrong way easily....

...again, no harm no foul here!

phoenix

"The Addiction Project is produced by HBO in partnership with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) and the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse andAlcoholism (NIAAA)."

http://www.hbo.com/addiction/

Please, loved one's and addicts, if you have not checked out this RESOURCE.... DO IT!!!!

Don't let the HBO thing throw you... All the information is up to date, very comprehensive and presented by some of the most knowlegable people in the field of addiction.

Start out by watching the documentory films, the link is in the upper right hand corner of the web page.

Keepit
simple
forme

Snookerstar,

My husband is 27 -- you guys are around the same age!

Please keep doing what you're doing -- your family WILL come around. It is very hard to trust again. I just wanted to tell you -- they don't trust you out of FEAR. And, they have fear because they love you. I love my husband so much that it terrifies me him going back to drugs. Because that would hurt me so much. I don't want to lose him. So, when he comes home for his visits I try to not "watch over" him, his cell phone, etc. I try to trust him more. But, I still have that fear in the back of my mind............is he fiending out? does he want to use? will he call one of his old drug buddies? will that make him want to use?

So, just keep on keeping on - and your family will come around.

phoenix

Jg1985 said if they, as parents, would have done what snookers folks did, they would have got shot!

It just shows that there is no one way that works for everyone!

The trick is to just keep trying DIFFERENT things until you find something that works.

And you have to give yourself credit for trying...

I may have got clean because "I did the work".... But I got a lot of help along the way too

I think that sometimes folks under estimate the power of the court system when it comes to addressing addiction with positive results.

Even possesion of a very small amount of Meth is a felony... If you had tried "everything else", would you turn your loved one over to a drug court if it would get them into, and keep them, in treatment?

http://www.hbo.com/addict...ental/626_drug_court.html

"Why would an addict that has suffered so much with his addict life style fail to make an effort to continue in an sober activity that improved his depression? This question is for all."

It doesn't make sense does it... Motel, girlfriend, cash... maybe it was just a little more than he could handle right now.

I'm really happy that you and your son had some good time together, and God bless you, because I know your struggles, and I know how much he means to you.

Your a good father... Actually I think all the parents of addicted children who are here are good, decent and very loving...

I forget sometimes how hard it must be to go thru what you all have been thru, and are going thru...

Don't give up

robert

PHOENIX said..... The trick is to just keep trying DIFFERENT things until you find something that works.

And you have to give yourself credit for trying...

I may have got clean because "I did the work"....But I got a lot of help along the way too.

This is exactly what I did..I walked through the doors of NA for the first time 12 years ago.
out in out in..Then a family doctor not trained in addiction thru me a prescipt. of Zoloft

while I had been up for days and just used. She said here start on these..I took twice the amount to start with before I left her office.I developed sever anxiety disorder that night and was in an emergency room that night..I went in house being seen by a addiction specialist who brought me out of daily anxiety attacks after 6 months in house for 7 days..IOP for almost 4 months nightly..After 6 months and feeling better I started drinking again.and as the story goes went back out..Of and on for the next 7 years until this time..In and out of programs all along Until as they say the light came on and the clarity of what I was doing and what needed to be done was and is very clear in my head..I call it an intervention from above..But I will take it..And I have gathered so much information along the way which I use to help me and hopefully help someone else...

sdm
sanjose

Phoenix' quote

If you had tried "everything else", would you turn your loved one over to a drug court if it would get them into, and keep them, in treatment?

I turned my son in twice (2006 and 2007) and he spent time in jail for both. The first time he resented me, the second time included an after jail sentence of 120 days in IP treatment that included the 12-steps. He came out and told me that he really appreciated my tough love. He was the best he had been since age 13, a real joy. He later slipped up and has been struggling ever since.

As usual the Gifted One (Penelope) added greatly to this thread IMO. She said

Penelope's quote

being proactive in whatever way a loved one can (Whether it's in trying to get through to the addict, or in just trying to take care of themselves if they are dealing with a "treatment resistant" addict like myself) has got to be better than doing nothing.

I DO believe that an addict will stop using precisely when he / she decides she wants to - but it sounds like some of us do respond to some type of "Intervention."

Pen's words cover the reality that HurtingForYou posted "….if the loved one wants so badly to change their addict........they will drive themselves crazy.........thus making it harder to help the addict because we as loved ones become sick ourselves.."

Pen's post also covered Snookestar's posts.

Phoenix gives great advice with very few words. He said:

"It just shows that there is no one way that works for everyone!
The trick is to just keep trying DIFFERENT things until you find something that works".

Danimal

You and Phoenix may see things differently politically but you both damn sure can help this old man with his struggle with his addicted son. Dan, your words to me helped because I know they are the truth; they also gave me another spark of hope. Thank you my amigo!

If I ever run for political office I would not hire you both at the same time but in the battle against addiction you two are a mighty duo.